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gcdugas
Most Controversial
Joined: 01 Jan 2004
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 Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:34 am Post subject: The Split |
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OK. mercg let me have the honor of starting this thread a few days early. You know I deserve it.
Lets look at the FOTA announcing that KERS will be scrapped for 2010... what does that tell us? It is another sign of the impending split with the FIA. The FOTA are acting very independent already. In their hearts the FOTA have resigned themselves to the split because Max is implacable and autocratic. I see this as a "Freudian slip" (or a measured unveiling) revealing their heart being set on a course they may not want to verbally acknowledge until the divorce papers are served this Friday. The FOTA has been to the attorney's office, they have gotten the papers from the courthouse, and they have even filled them out but they haven't delivered them to the registrar and won't until Friday. Then they can talk about it. Until then kids... everything is fine even though daddy isn't living at home anymore. Pssst, you older kids know what is happening so please comfort the younger ones for what is coming, OK?
Hey Max.... where are all your teams going to get their engines and gearboxes? LOL Cosworth? Don't make me laugh... a one-make spec series... LOL I will give it a year... LOL Give my regards to Madame Dominatra in the dungeon... LOL
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schui_no_1
The Golden Mod
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:05 am Post subject: |
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I like this thread. I hope the split happens just to stick it up Max. The fact that there is one guy who makes the rules (more often then not against the wishes of the working groups) is just rediculous.
This whole KERS fiasco is testiment to this. All the teams said at the time, yes is MAY work, BUT!!! it will cost hundreds of millions to research and develop which is completely against the cost cutting policy. In the end only a hand full of teams are using the system.
None of those teams using KERS are winning and rather than allowing more overtaking as it was suggested it would, it's actually artificially creating a increased lack of overtaking whereby a KERS enabled car is able to hold out a faster car by simply hitting the 'do not overtake' button.
This was VERY evident last weekend with Barrichello trying desperately to get past the McLaren cars that had a much slower ulitimate pace.
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sumster
F1 Team Manager
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
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Location: India
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:19 am Post subject: |
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Im glad they are dumping KERS. Its a real waste of time. Either they should have enforced it on all teams or just shouldnt have allowed it at all.
Its a two-tier championship at the moment. There is only one team with KERS fighting somewhere close to the top. Its getting a bit boring!
I was reading on another report that BMW were against dumping KERS. I just dont get it. They arent using it or dont look like they will either. So why the hell favour something that you arent even contemplating on using. Its just stupid.
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awalker
FRenault Driver
Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Posts: 241
Location: South Africa
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Only yesterday, Mercedes confirmed its intention to sign an engine agreement with Brawn for another three years. Mercedes already has a deal with Force India for five years. Williams has a deal with Toyota too... In fact, for a very candid, unemotional view on the current state of affairs, CLICK HERE.. Sorry drama queens... EGBOK - Everything is Going to be Okay! And, it's not only an AutoSport PR blurb...
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mercuryg
The Golden Merc UpdateF1 Editor
Joined: 26 May 2003
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Location: northumberland - where else?
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| awalker wrote: | | Only yesterday, Mercedes confirmed its intention to sign an engine agreement with Brawn for another three years. Mercedes already has a deal with Force India for five years. Williams has a deal with Toyota too... In fact, for a very candid, unemotional view on the current state of affairs, CLICK HERE.. Sorry drama queens... EGBOK - Everything is Going to be Okay! And, it's not only an AutoSport PR blurb... |
I'm not sure why you think that interview - with the only genuine non-FOTA entry (Mallya, notably, wants back in) is an indication that everything is going to be OK. Mercedes wants to supply Brawn, and Brawn are FOTA stalwarts; force India are known to have been investigating the Cosworth option, and as for Williams and Toyota, remember who the last Cosworth runners were.
We know the teams are not going to enter as anything other than a collective, unless there are guarantees, and Mosley gives no guarantees other than that there will b a budget cap and, therefore, there will exist the unnaceptable two tier arrangement.
I am hoping - nay, praying - that FOTA announce their intention to start their own series, and to start it before the end of this season, thus throwing teh current FIA shambles into disarray.
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diogenes
Karting
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:32 am Post subject: |
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It is extremely sad that the core fanbase of Formula 1 are wishing its downfall. Phoenix or not, it would be sad to see Formula 1 crush under the weight of Max' stupidity.
I don't know what is coming next, and I highly doubt that Max, FOTA or Bernie do either. |
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gcdugas
Most Controversial
Joined: 01 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| awalker wrote: | | Only yesterday, Mercedes confirmed its intention to sign an engine agreement with Brawn for another three years. Mercedes already has a deal with Force India for five years. Williams has a deal with Toyota too... In fact, for a very candid, unemotional view on the current state of affairs, CLICK HERE.. Sorry drama queens... EGBOK - Everything is Going to be Okay! And, it's not only an AutoSport PR blurb... |
Keep dreaming. Toyota will buy their way out of Williams' contract if they have to. Remember the value that Williams can sue for is only $10M a year so tossing them a few million is no great loss especially when they save nearly that amount of money by not making them the engines and assigning them a few engineers per unit. Frank is crossing his fingers but in his heart he sees the writing is on the wall. You will notice that he cannot definitively say Toyota will be with him next year. The same goes for FiF1 and MB. The cost to buy out the contract in completely offset by the cost they save by not executing it. Just a few coins.
Do you really think that the FOTA teams will let their engines (and prestige!) be used in a series that they will be directly competing against for TV contracts, track contracts and sponsorship money? Once they break away there is no use in hedging their bets. It will be all out direct competition and they hold all the cards. FIA F1 will be nothing without their prestige. Nothing. The FOTA teams (and drivers!) will crush the FIA in the market place fair and square. It won't last long. This is very different from the Indy/CART split in the US. Is that split each side had something. One side had the drivers who all grew old and retired while the other side had the Indy 500, a lucrative TV contract and staying power. Just wait until the FIA tries to fine Team Lola/Brabham/Lotus tens of thousands of dollars for pitlane speeding or hundreds of thousands for some technical infraction... that well will be dry.
BTW, the early money at the bookmakers has Alex Yoong at 5/4 over Yuji Ide as favorites for the 2010 FIA F1-lite championship. Hold your bets though. This may all change when Jean Denis Deletraz puts his helmet back on.
And in the FW interview, Tony Dodgins the questioner, reveals that many of the team principles seriously think the Max has mental illness. And then there is this interesting little exchange...
| Quote: | Q. Which brings us back to your statement where you said that you'd follow where Bernie goes?
FW: (Whispers) It's the money!
Q. That's a key point though, because for the Brawns and Force Indias it surely can't make sense for them not to be where the money supply is..
FW: That's right, yeah, sure. |
When Frank whispers "Its the money" he wasn't talking about the lack of money a future FOTA series would generate, he was referring to the money he already took from Bernie that bound him to the FIA/FOM camp through 2012. The interviewer fails to recognize the distinction as if there would be no "money supply" from the FOTA series and presumes FW was talking about future FOM revenue streams rather than the FOM advance money that FW is bound by. Frank's next answer is... "Boy I am sure glad he didn't probe further about that advance money.... yeah, sure Tony, uh that's right. Whatever you say... can we talk about something less touchy? Phew."
Three days until liberation.....
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massman
F1 Mid-Team
Joined: 27 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| mercuryg wrote: | | I am hoping - nay, praying - that FOTA announce their intention to start their own series, and to start it before the end of this season, thus throwing teh current FIA shambles into disarray. |
I, too, am hoping this will happen and preferrably during the season although Brawn would have something to say about that I'm sure.
| diogenes wrote: | It is extremely sad that the core fanbase of Formula 1 are wishing its downfall. Phoenix or not, it would be sad to see Formula 1 crush under the weight of Max' stupidity.
I don't know what is coming next, and I highly doubt that Max, FOTA or Bernie do either. |
It is sad but this is being caused by one man. How can this be allowed in a modern day western Europe. Maybe if FOTA do really go for it (towards a new series) the clubs will pipe up and boot Max out before the teams go. Let's face it, if FOTA go and take their drivers too F1 will just be GP2 rebranded as F1.
| gcdugas wrote: | | Keep dreaming. Toyota will buy their way out of Williams' contract if they have to. Remember the value that Williams can sue for is only $10M a year so tossing them a few million is no great loss especially when they save nearly that amount of money by not making them the engines and assigning them a few engineers per unit. |
Toyota have a cash reserve running in the billions of dollars so telling Williams where they can stick their engines won't be a problem to them.
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gcdugas
Most Controversial
Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| diogenes wrote: | It is extremely sad that the core fanbase of Formula 1 are wishing its downfall. Phoenix or not, it would be sad to see Formula 1 crush under the weight of Max' stupidity.
I don't know what is coming next, and I highly doubt that Max, FOTA or Bernie do either. |
Well I know what is coming next, and so does FOTA.... a bright new day without a tyrant or a money leech. The teams, the fans, the promoters, the track owners, the sponsors will all win.
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diogenes
Karting
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| I would bet against you gcdugas: Bernie is far too intelligent to watch his investment wash down the drain. There will be a resolution. How, when, and after how much blood I don't know. |
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gcdugas
Most Controversial
Joined: 01 Jan 2004
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| mercuryg wrote: | | I am hoping - nay, praying - that FOTA announce their intention to start their own series, and to start it before the end of this season, thus throwing teh current FIA shambles into disarray. |
Well I have no ill will against finishing the season with class and dignity. And I have no haste to delight in Max's demise or his legacy as the singular man who ruined a great sport because of his deep rooted psychological troubles stemming from the elitist doctrine his father passed along to him. That is not a cheap swipe either. It is my honest assessment of the root cause of all of this.
But I will say to mercg... your prayers have been answered. As of 29 May, Max has made contractual promises to the new teams that prevent him from retracting his position. And that position is 100% unacceptable to the FOTA teams. It is done. All that will happen Friday is that the teams will deliver the already filled out divorce papers to the registrar.
Previously I expressed surprise that the FIA accepted the FOTA applications that read like a list of ultimatums and I was right. They didn't accept them.
Just three days until liberation...
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mercuryg
The Golden Merc UpdateF1 Editor
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| gcdugas wrote: | [Previously I expressed surprise that the FIA accepted the FOTA applications that read like a list of ultimatums and I was right. They didn't accept them.
.. |
The most interesting part of that bit of the saga is that the conditional entry was Max's idea.....
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gcdugas
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| diogenes wrote: | | I would bet against you gcdugas: Bernie is far too intelligent to watch his investment wash down the drain. There will be a resolution. How, when, and after how much blood I don't know. |
Short of a Tony Soprano "sleep with the fishes" solution or a fortuitous bolt of lightening, there is none. And even then, all the new entrants have a contractual claim to race in a FIA series called F1 under terms unacceptable to FOTA so it is all done. Bernie may well be smart and shrewd but Max has him by the short hairs just like he did at Indy in 2005 almost EXACTLY five years ago to the day. Bernie was powerless to Max then and he is powerless to Max now.
I am willing to take your bet for any amount of money you care to donate.
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gcdugas
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| mercuryg wrote: |
The most interesting part of that bit of the saga is that the conditional entry was Max's idea..... |
Max tried to outmaneuver them with this but it failed. He was trying to use the new teams as a wedge because they "have a rightful claim to determine the rules" now that they have entered and will be selectively accepted by the FIA in accordance with their compliance. Interestingly such "rule making power" has been denied to the FOTA teams when all ten teams agreed and made their version of cost cutting proposals but somehow magically the new entrants have a claim to such power? Hmmm?
Max underestimated the resolve and unity of the FOTA teams and was hoping to split them and employ a "run out the clock" strategy. It failed. Even Mallya regrets his decision now but it is done. Too bad for him that he cracked under the pressure. Max's mental illness and delusion is adversely affecting his cunning. He's never failed to split and bully people in the past but, like the boy who cried "wolf", Max has gone to the well one to many times and it just didn't work this time.
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yodi
F3 Driver
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 463
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: Re: The Split |
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| gcdugas wrote: | OK. mercg let me have the honor of starting this thread a few days early. You know I deserve it.
Lets look at the FOTA announcing that KERS will be scrapped for 2010... what does that tell us? It is another sign of the impending split with the FIA. The FOTA are acting very independent already. In their hearts the FOTA have resigned themselves to the split because Max is implacable and autocratic. I see this as a "Freudian slip" (or a measured unveiling) revealing their heart being set on a course they may not want to verbally acknowledge until the divorce papers are served this Friday. The FOTA has been to the attorney's office, they have gotten the papers from the courthouse, and they have even filled them out but they haven't delivered them to the registrar and won't until Friday. Then they can talk about it. Until then kids... everything is fine even though daddy isn't living at home anymore. Pssst, you older kids know what is happening so please comfort the younger ones for what is coming, OK?
Hey Max.... where are all your teams going to get their engines and gearboxes? LOL Cosworth? Don't make me laugh... a one-make spec series... LOL I will give it a year... LOL Give my regards to Madame Dominatra in the dungeon... LOL |
Freudian slips refer to UNCONSCIOUS wishes finding their way into consciousness (language) in a disguised way... |
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