Toyota F1 - Writing on the Wall?

awalker · Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:55 pm Post subject: Toyota F1 - Writing on the Wall?

If you join the dots it seems Toyota's huge Formula One white elephant could be coming to its end...

Toyota has spent billions on Formula 1 and yet it still has not won a race since its arrival six years ago. Now with BMW having followed Honda out, it seems F1 could be on the verge of losing anoter manufacturer soon...

Three interesting stories emerged from Valencia over the weekend.

Firstly Williams all of a sudden seems to be flat out negotiating a new deal for engines after all but extending it's Toyota deal earlier in the year. "We're looking at a new engine deal and It will be quite soon," Frank Williams suggested.

"The paddock is full of gossip," Williams expanded when quizzed on what would power his cars next year. "Tomorrow it might be Mercedes-Benz, and then the next day Ferrari - and I get a free car with it!"

Then it emerged that Jarno Trulli is looking elsewhere for a drive next year.

"We are in negotiation with Jarno and we haven't reached an agreement and there is a possibility that we won't close the gap," Toyota boss John Howett revealed.

The gap does not apply to the difference between Trulli's pay demands and Toyota's remuneration offer. It applies the the duration of Trulli's contract. Trulli wants a 2-year deal, Toyota reckons that's far too long... Guess Toyota's not too keen on a long-term pay-off?

"I hope I can stay in F1," Trulli admitted before suggesting that another carmker could quit soon: "In this economic crisis nothing is for sure - if you look back over the last year it is a disaster. "Honda has pulled out, BMW has pulled out, and probably they will not be the only one."

Trulli's words could prove prohetic according to news that broke about Toyota Sunday evening - the Board is still to sign off the 2010 F1 budget in November and it may still pull the rug on its rather embarrassing and fruitless F1 sojourn.

"We have submitted the budget and because of the economic situation, the Toyota group wants to wait for the full half year of the current financial year before signing it off," Howett admitted. "I am honestly expecting severe pressure on budget..."
_________________
"Don't drive faster than your guardian angel can fly!"

SuperEddie · F1 Backmarker Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 1758

Does anyone think Toyota have actually already withdrawn.... there are stories that the FIA were looking for 2 new teams to replace BMW which seamed odd at the time due to being a 13 team limit at the tracks and 2 new teams would make 14... Have we stumbled across the reason? Bye Bye Toyota. Wink

Lita · Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:57 pm Post subject:

That's a good point about the team numbers. I wouldn't be surprised by the announcement of them pulling out as the team is a disaster. I personally hate them.

I was definitely amazed when I heard that Trulli may not be retained by Toyota. I'm not Trulli's biggest fan but he is a driver with lots of experience so his input would be valuable. Glock? Well he'll never carry any weight for me. The moment he lost 18 seconds and gave that position to Hamilton in Brazil was the moment he will forever remain a gimp in my mind.
_________________
*~¤~* Lita *~¤~*

schui_no_1 · Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:25 am Post subject:

It would not surprise me at all if Toyota left.

They have spent a bucketload in F1... in some cases quite poorly, especially in relation to a certain ex driver on their list. But the recent stories of Trulli negotiating around the paddock, Glock 'not having his option taken up' and Williams suddenly 'looking to exit their engine contract early' while feverishly trying to negotiate a new deal for next season suggest that the decision has already been made, just not made public.

I will feel sad for this as I'm a loyal Toyota customer of many years, but it kind of seems fitting that they exit as, as a car company, they no longer produce any sports cars. Even Lexus only really have the IS-F in thier line-up as something comparible to a performance car.
_________________
I asked for rain, not a deluge

mercuryg · Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:19 am Post subject:

sumster · Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject:

Strange, but i remember reading that they had extended Glocks contract for another year.

Thats another huge car manufacturer calling it quits. N it seems smaller private teams are willing to step up to take their place. Funny situation!
_________________
ON THE LIMIT......FuLL rEvS!!!!
WELCOME BACK M.S!!

Fil · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:27 am Post subject:

F1's power balance is like fashion, its cyclical.

Looks like privateer teams are back in fashion & will be returning to the majority. Hopefully happy pants & shoulder pads don't have similar success anytime soon..
_________________
"IF is a very long word in Formula One; in fact, IF is F1 spelled backwards."
Murray Walker

..::contributing 1.11% to this forum since 2004::..

massman · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:44 am Post subject:

I don't particularly like Toyota but I would prefer it if they stayed. BMW is a bigger loss though. If Mercedes leave then it'll be Team Cosworth next year
_________________
Goodbye Max, Goodbye Alan Joy!

Todt doing good? Think

Go McLaren, Go Lewis!

muzza · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:07 am Post subject:

Mercedes wont leave i think. They have contracted there engines to 2 teams and have been vocal about wanting to supply a third team. With the current engine freeze it may mean by supplying 3 teams, albiet being paid by only 2 Mercedes may turn a profit selling engines. That being the case they should stick with F1 for a while longer.

Toyota i cant see continuing and wouldnt be at all surprised to see them leave, there main japanese rival is gone.. ( although you could say the same about merc and BMW) But i still believe there is more chance of Toyota staying in F1 and they dont spend that much compared to there company, i think the F1 budget eqautes to 3 or 4% of there advertising budget. Renault is the one i believe is gone, there CEO has made it quite clear he is not a fan of F1 and without there marqee driver ( Alonso ) they would quite easily leave the sport.

having said all that, the introduction of the budget cap will make it easier for a team like pro drive to enter F1 and be competitive. Perhaps we will see a deal with Toyota and Renault where by they leave F1 as a manufacturer but continue supplying engines?
_________________
"I dont think the Micheal liked it"
Mika Hakkinen on his pass at SPA.

schui_no_1 · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:23 am Post subject:

sumster · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:47 am Post subject:

Renault must be making quite a bit of money from GP2 right? Dont they supply the engines?
_________________
ON THE LIMIT......FuLL rEvS!!!!
WELCOME BACK M.S!!

mercuryg · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:00 am Post subject:

spacekid · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:14 am Post subject:

mercuryg · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:24 am Post subject:

spacekid · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:32 am Post subject:

Fair point, I should have chosen my words more carefully. Obviously BMW and Toyota are making perfectly reasonable engines at the moment. I meant there are only 3 teams who want to make them for next year who are able to produce a decent unit.
_________________
I love the smell of petrol in the morning.
Smells like victory.